Jennie 0:05

Welcome to Traveling Companions Stories of Becoming. This is a podcast about the in-between. Those threshold moments when we can no longer go back to who we were, and who we're becoming isn't yet clear. If you've ever stood in that space or find yourself there now, you're not alone. I'm your host, Jennie Snyder. Today I am absolutely delighted to welcome Momo, also known as Monica Escobido, to the podcast. Monica and I have been companions in other venues and other places, and um just really delighted to sit down today and to be in conversation with her. Welcome, Momo. And I will let you introduce yourself in whatever way you'd like.

Momo 0:57

Thank you so much, Jennie. I am really honestly grateful to be here with you. And as you said, yeah, we have been companions uh in other journeys, uh, especially in this podcast world and podcast journey. Um introducing myself, that is always a hard one. I guess I will say that yes, my preferred name is Momo, my pronouns are she/they. I live in Canada since 1998. I was born in Mexico, and I immigrated to Canada for my work they sent me for my job, and I fell in love with Montreal. I fell in love uh with this land, and I made my home here. I was a software engineer, I was lucky to have um a career for 20 years in telecom, but there was something else that I was searching, and through some mishaps, I was able to move forward into what I'm doing now as a new career, first in the creative and community world, and now as well in the coaching world. I guess I'll say I'm a human, I'm very curious, and I'm still evolving and trying to find my way in this world.

Jennie 2:28

A human who is still finding their way and evolving in this world. That's beautiful. So, Momo, we begin each of our conversations uh with a framing question. And so I will now pose this question to you. What was a moment in your life when you could no longer go back to who you were, and who you were becoming wasn't yet clear?

Momo 2:59

I mean I have listened to other episodes in your podcast, and I I knew this question was coming. And yet today I'm here present and I'm really letting the question sit and land on me. I guess we have all been through many, or at least I've been through many of those moments. Um I mean immigration is one of them that when I came to Canada, when I came I I didn't know that I was going to stay here my whole life, or at least for as long as as I am, I'm still here. Um so immigration was one, um a divorce was another one. Um and then there was also the diagnosis of cancer of my mom and then her passing away. And then my cancer and what that brought to my life, which are very um both very different moments, both related to cancer, my mom and and mine. Um but uh it's they have very they had very different impacts in in my life. And I think I'm still discovering who I am after those two. And I'm still making sense and I'm still um paving my way or making my way after those two moments. Uh I I think those were two defining moments in my life, definitely. Yeah.

Jennie 4:45

Yeah. And as you reflect on or think back to those moments, what stands out for you?

Momo 5:06

I think what stands out at the beginning is surprise. Um, we all know that life, and I think it was uh your previous guest said life is life. And we know that um to be in this world means that we're gonna fall, we're gonna scrape our knees, we're gonna we're gonna hurt, we're gonna fall in love, we're gonna laugh, we're gonna get sick, and one day we're gonna die. We all know that in paper or theoretically, but it's it's different when when it really happens. When when it happens, it is really a surprise. It's like, oh, like I knew, I know we're vulnerable, but I didn't know that this was going to happen now. Uh so what stands for me is this surprise, and then how we react after those moments of surprise, and what we learn of ourselves in those moments. So first is the surprise, and then and then it's like, okay, what do I do with this now? And everything that we can learn about ourselves in those moments.

Jennie 6:28

Yeah. And so those moments where something happens that surprises us. We didn't see it coming. And here it's in front of us. And how we respond to that. Um I'm curious that element of surprise as you think about some of the thresholds that you've crossed. Um I don't have a fully formed question here, but I'm curious about what was that like for you to stand in that moment of surprise.

Momo 7:19

Um for example, with my mom, I think what helped me is uh knowing, although we didn't I didn't know uh as their children, me and my brother and my sister. We didn't know that she had stage four breast cancer that was metastatic. Uh yeah, we knew very, very late. It's like, oh well, uh the cancer is in the liver, but you know, okay, so why like is there a possibility of a transplant? So so then I start, and and this is how I cope. So when I say I learn about myself, it's in those pivotal, in those threshold moments, we learn if if we if we pay attention to ourselves, we learn how what resources we can grab to that can help us through those moments. And in my case, it's I grab to knowledge, what can I learn from this? What how can I prepare how can I go and visit her because she was in Mexico, I was here in Canada. Uh what can I do? How can I prepare? How can I resource myself? So then I I talked to a friend of mine, she's a doctor, and I told her about everything that I learned from my mom. So I tried to learn as much as possible, I tried to ask as much questions as possible. So I relayed to my friend that what was happening, and she told me, Well, it seems like your mom is on her last weeks, days as a doctor, they they never know if even palliative care doctors, uh, because I have received some um I was also a volunteer in a palliative care floor, uh, so I have received some training as a volunteer. And even the doctors, they never tell you, oh, you have three days. Or they can estimate if you're in the days and the weeks and the months. But my friend as a doctor, she told me probably your mom has a few weeks. And this is how it's gonna look like. These are the stages that she's gonna go through, because it's her liver, this is what this is what's gonna happen. Although it was very hard for me to hear, it was something that when I was there, I could recognize every step that my friend told me, and although the the final moments were very, very close, I felt like I was that that this was a resource for me. So it's kind of removing a little it's it's funny because it's it was kind of removing a bit the element of surprise. I knew that it was coming, I I still didn't know when. Yeah, but I think it allowed me to be there for her in a way that was more honest and authentic. Because as a daughter, of course, if you have told me, well, if there was something to do, will you have done it, will you have tried? Like, of course, like of course, but also there is something so special about showing up for somebody in their last days or in their last weeks, just authentically, and allowing them to just talk about their fears and to just talk about and to just say, What do you need from me right now? Because of course everybody around them is like, well, you can do this, continue fighting, you you know, you can uh what else can we do? What what else can we give you? Can we you know bring you the moon and the stars and like and make a potion and you know you can do it. But sometimes we just have to be there with the person and just say what what do you need from me? Like can you and I remember I I remember clearly I was uh we were alone in uh in the dining room, she was in a wheelchair, and um I kneeled in front of her and I asked her, Do you still want to fight? Because I saw how hard it was for her and all the symptoms that she had, and I said, Do you still want to fight? And she looked at me and she said yes, and I'm like, okay, if that is what you want, I'm here for you. What do you need from me? Of course, I'm her daughter, so that's the difficult part. Maybe she wanted to say no, who knows? But I'm her daughter, and uh but I saw the the despair and the tears, um but I I was you know just there for her. Um in hindsight, yes, I will have liked to do many other things. Um but I was also lucky enough to be there for her in those moments. And I think that's that brought something in me, or that awakened something in me, because at that moment I was still uh doing, you know, I was still in my career as a software engineer, I was happy, but there was something missing, and I saw how important is for somebody that is um that have received a diagnosis, for example, um, of a stage four, cancer, stage four, uh end of life, which is an end of life diagnosis really um to have somebody that is not related to you, that has no agenda, that you can take your mask off and that you can say whatever you need to say. It's like life is shit, or like you know, like if you want to swear, if you want to cry, if you want to because uh I was her daughter, and and I knew like through her whole life, she was always trying to protect us, she was always trying to make things easier for us, and she honestly I'm I'm I'm so lucky with the mom that I got. Um I just got her for so little time. She died when she was 65, and I really hope that there was somebody there that was able to listen to her fears and to how she was really feeling. Um so I hope I hope that she had that, and I hope that I can be there for somebody in that moment as a person that is not related to them, so I can hold that space and the people can really talk about whatever they want to talk. Whether they want to coerce life, or they wanna say that was enough, I wanna go now, or no, I I wanna keep going, whatever they wanna say. Like no judgment, no agenda, just say it, scream it to another human being. I hope my mom had that. I hope she had that opportunity, and I hope and I hope many people have that opportunity to say really what is in their hearts, what is in their minds at those moments.

Jennie 15:40

Yeah. Um Momo, as you were sharing uh your your story, I um I'm just really feeling I'm feeling the words and and what you shared just...

Momo 16:17

yeah, thank you, Jenny. I don't I you know it's I don't have words.

Jennie 16:22

I I'm feeling holding putting my hand on my chest. I feel just the depth of the emotion in that. And in that moment of wanting to what do you need me to be and wanting very much to be there for your mom in her moment. What did you take from that experience?

Momo 17:06

I mean, so many things, and this was in in 2010. I we're recording this in 2026, so and I'm still learning, you know, and it's still very very emotional for me, you can see it in my eyes. Yes, yeah. Um at that at that moment, what I took is uh I I need to be here for my family, for my mom, but also for my dad, also for my sister, for my brother. I'm here, of course I'm here as a daughter, I'm here for me, but I'm also here for them. So the power or or the importance to do that in community, to have that, to go through those difficult moments as a shared experience, to go together and and after to recognize how difficult and how different it was for each of us, and all the things that can come up come up from from that moment. Um my sister had a moment of um protection and anger. She wanted to protect my mom from things, and she got angry at me, she got angry at um at a neighbor. And just recognizing that okay, this is a moment this this is a collective moment of grief. And and we say things that are very hurtful, or we can say things that are very hurtful in those moments, and we can do also, or we can say stupid things, and just recognizing that we're all we're all going through this as a family, um in our own way with our own capacity, and it is hard on all of us, and just to give a little grace to each of us, myself included, and have compassion for all of us because we are not gonna do this perfectly. We did it to the best of all of our abilities, but not to hold grudges and to say, like, wow, we went through this storm and we were doing our best, and we were all there for our mom, and we all love her. Um so just to have compassion and to forgive and to say, wow, that was tough, and you know, things came up and just to look at it from a lens of compassion. Um and and I'm still learning how important it is to reach out to people every day. Like I remember before me being in Canada, my family being in Mexico, and it was, you know, before the WhatsApp era, my mom was very, very tech oriented. She had a Facebook account, there was no Instagram at that time yet, but she was very techie. She was an accountant, and she had her computer, and she was not afraid of technology. So she will send me emails, she will send me messages on Facebook, she will send me e-cards. Um, and I was like, why I didn't call her more often? Why I didn't call her every day, not every week. Like, what was I thinking? And I think it's this, yeah, and I think it's this illusion that we have that oh, we have so much time, and yes, we have so much time, and yet time goes so fast, and we never know how how much we have with the people that we love. So, in hindsight, it's like ah, I should have called her every day. You know, it's like yes, I was busy, yes, I was in my 20s and my 30s, and I had a lot of friends, and I was working long hours, and but I should have called her more often. I called her every week, but it's like I should have called her more often. So, what I did after that, I started calling my father every night until at some point he was like, I have nothing else to tell you. Like, what do you want me to say? What do you want from me? So then I will call him and ask, you know, uh ask for a recipe. Like, oh dad, like I remember you were doing this juice, but can you give me the recipe? You know. So just very mundane things. Just ask like, hey, what did you have for lunch today? Oh, that sounds great. And but I was calling him every night. And sometimes, yes, I miss one night or two. But we were talking constantly. I also was calling my aunts. My aunts on my mother's side, they were there also like my mother's. We grew up together in the same house. So and till this date, I mean, my dad passed away, my aunt passed away, but I still call my other aunts. And we called almost every day. Now we video chat and now they send me pictures of what they ate. So I think what I'm learning is it's not that we have to have this like deep conversation, which sometimes we do, but it's just checking in on each other. It's like, hey, I had allergies today. You know, it's like, hey, I ate this today, or send them a picture of my dinner. And then they would they will reply with a picture of their dinner, and then I'm like, oh, I'm so jealous, I want that. You know, so just having this constant because I I never wanna regret again uh not having called them like every day, and that's something that I I keep learning. I'm still learning. Um yeah, so many things. Every day is a new learning.

Jennie 23:40

You know, and I um you know what you just said a moment ago about you know, in our our twenties or thirties, I I um we think we have all the time in the world. And life is just it's this endless highway in front of us. And um I uh lost someone very dear to me. I was not even, I was 20, and the suddenness and they were gone within six months. And yeah, you know, but in that time of my life, you know, it was like, oh it wasn't even something to contemplate or consider. It's like, oh, of course. Gonna have forever. And that realization or that like walking through that, it it definitely shook me, you know, in a way that it's like I never thought about time in the same way. Or yeah, I don't know. It's just it just has a that lasting impact of you know how do we stay in connection in those moments and not lose them.

Momo 24:56

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, how do we stay in connection? Yeah, with people around us and and also with ourselves.

Jennie 25:04

Yeah. And being in connection with others, and you mentioned being with your family going through that difficult time. What difference did that make walking through that in community?

Momo 25:28

I I think about it a lot, and I have the fortune that um we are a very close family. Me and my brother, my sister, um my dad, my mom, my aunts, uh my grandma. We we grew up like that. We grew up just being very close. And I don't know I don't know how else I will have done it without them. And I think about you know, some friends of mine that have gone through that the loss of a parent or both parents and they're alone. And I I just cannot imagine because I was I was lucky enough to have my brother and my sister with me. And um and recently actually I started reading uh these two books, great books I highly recommend. One is uh The Grieving Brain, and the other one is The Grieving Body. I can tell you after the author, she's a PhD, she researches uh grief and the impact of grief in our brains and in our bodies, and she talks about how we are connected to the person, I mean we're connected to many people in our lives, and then one of them passes away. And how our brain has a map, has a virtual map of the world with that person in it, and how destabilizing it is for our brain to just not like you know that you want to something happens and I want to reach on the phone, and like, oh I'm gonna tell my mom. I was like, Oh yeah, my mom is not there, you know, and it's like you walk in the middle, you wake up in the middle of the night, and it's like, oh yeah, my mom is not there. Or so how destabilizing it is for the brain physiologically and also for the body. So she's talking also about how at some point we have to remap with time but with experience. Our brain remaps our world in this new way without this person physically in this world, but also how we remap our connections to others, so how we can we fall into despair and we think like despair has maybe it sounds too harsh, maybe it has no um no purpose, but where we we fall from acceptance, accepting that this person is no longer in this world and we fall into despair is from there that we can start remapping our connections to others and how that is part of what helped help us continue, you know, after the loss of somebody. So how and I can see clearly how my connection to my dad changed. You know, before when I was calling my when I was calling home and my dad will answer, he will say, hi, how are you? and and like oh let me let me pass you to your mom. He was like, you know, like yeah, hi for let me pass it to your mom. That's it. But then after, it's like no, he had to talk to me. And it's not like my my dad was very open, we had a very close relationship, but he was he had to talk to me because then he he didn't have the option to pass me to my mom. Like, no, I want to talk to you. I call so how this relationship changes, how the relationship with my brother, with my sister changes, and how uh we need this community. So if we don't have this community in our family, hopefully we have friends, even pets. Pets are so important, and it happened in my family as well that shortly after my mom passed, my brother, who is 10 years younger than me, he adopted uh he rescued a dog. And her name was Maya. She recently passed, and but she accompanied us for so many years, and she really brought something to the home. She accompanied my dad, she accompanied my brother, and it's it's these relationships that help us move forward in a different way, and it's not that my mom is not present or her memory is not present or her love is not present. I think the relationship with my mom, uh at least for myself, and I'm sure for for my family as well, it doesn't stop, it doesn't end when she's no longer in this world. It just changes. So if you don't have a family to go through, uh it's it's normal that at the beginning we want to retreat, we want to be on our own, we want to make sense of our world. We we need that period of uh isolation and then when we're ready to come out, uh just reach out to friends, to family, to or even a pet because it's those relationships that help us regulate again and map our world in a different way.

Jennie 31:39

Yeah, and the uh just the presence of another being human, family, friend, a pet and what do you suppose it is about the presence of another being that helps us in those moments?

Momo 32:05

Um I mean from a personal uh experience I can tell you that is well, the interaction and also the caring. You know, caring for somebody else but also feeling or let ourselves uh be cared by somebody else. So is this relationship of caring? Um that's from a personal point of view, but it's so funny because in this book I'm reading I'm only at the beginning of the second book that is uh The grieving body, and she explains how we regulate, like our hormones, our brain, our heart, we regulate with others. So there is a physiological and you know it has been studied and is proven that that dysregulation with our hormones, with our uh circadian rhythm, it's in interaction with others and it regulates with others, and that's why it's so destabilizing when, for example, uh we lose a partner because this is the person that we are regulated with the most exactly that we have. And that's how it's so or that's why it's so destabilizing. Not only uh so grief is not only something that I feel or that is in my head, it's something it's physiological as well, yeah. And how important it is to recognize it and to know and to maybe do a simple checkup with your doctor. It doesn't have to be nothing special, it's just a checkup. Uh and then a checkup after six months and see how you're doing because it has real physical impact in your body.

Jennie 34:03

I um you know that piece about being in the presence of another and what you just shared helped me to make sense of that in a different way. In that moment when I was in just deep grief and shock and all of that, and that kind of impulse to pull away, and I just want to be on my own. And and as I look back, being in the presence of others helped me to feel less alone in that moment. And um there was comfort in that not feeling alone. Um yeah, but it this whole piece around just at the level of our neurobiology connecting and being regulated with another. Yeah.

Momo 35:05

Yeah, and it's something that um culturally, uh, at least in Mexico, we know, and that's why there are some rituals, you know, it's like the ritual of having um a service for the person and gathering new friends and family so we can all say goodbye together, closing that circle. And in Mexico, depending on the religion, I'm not a religious person, but I grew up in a Catholic on my mother's side and Protestant on my father's side. This is how I grew up, although I'm not religious. Each religion or each um culture has its way of coming together when there is when there is a newborn baby, but also when somebody passes away, and in other moments, in other, I think milestone moments when somebody gets married, like different moments, and in the moment when somebody passes away. I remember since I was a child in Mexico in my home, we will always have either the radio or the TV on. You know, we grew up, my grandma was there, my aunts, my parents, and then all of a sudden I would be running around the house, and my grandma would receive a phone call. And I will just knew because of the way like she would answer, like, no, what, who, when, how come? And I'm like, oh no, oh no, the TV is gonna be off. And then as soon as she would hang up the phone, like, turn off the TV, turn off the radio, so and so died. And for me as a child, I mean, I didn't know still who or what, or you know, sometimes it was a friend of my grandma or a neighbor, somebody, so somebody not close to me as a child, but for me, it was devastating that they were turning off the TV and that they were turning off the radio. And like, what do you mean? I cannot watch my cartoons, like you know, I was watching the show.

Jennie 37:08

Yeah.

Momo 37:09

Um but then we will all go, whoever was in the house, we will all go to the kitchen, including us as children, and they will start preparing coffee, so they will put a pot of coffee. Sometimes I will take out some bread or not, and then we will all sit down around the table, around the kitchen table, and we'll have coffee, including children. With the TV off, with the radio off. And and then my grandma will start telling the stories about this person that just passed, and then my aunts will join, you know, in in laughter and in tears, and it's like just telling and remembering this person and and making sense of who this person was for us or for them. As a child, I was just there, you know, like, okay, let's have coffee together, let's have, you know, cookies or crackers or something. And now as an adult, I see how important that was, you know, that as a family we came together and we kind of closed the distractions of the world. Yeah. That was the TV, the radio, you know, the running around. And let's sit together and let's talk and let's laugh and let's cry together and let's tell stories about this person and let's remember them. And then, you know, and in Mexico, the funerals they happen so fast. So probably by the next day we were all going to the funeral, and in Mexico, children, I as a child, I went to so many funerals. It's something that you don't hide or that you don't you don't protect in kids from because it's part of life. And you are as a child, you're part of the community. So we were there, we were learning, we were learning what life was and what death was, and what being there for others that lost somebody really close, what that meant, and how to be there for them in the moment. So and this is the power of community, and our I think our communities and our ancestral communities, they didn't know they didn't need these books that you know that I'm reading now, that I I so appreciate. I love it. But we knew it, we knew it in our hearts, we knew it in our bodies, we knew it in our rituals, and we were just bringing it, and just very shortly, another ritual that we have in Mexico after the funeral, when the person is no longer at home, I mean the person is not gonna come back. It's those are very hard days, the first days that you know the person is not there anymore in their bed, they're not around, they're not in the kitchen, they're not in the in the sofa in the living room. There are nine days that you prepare food for people and you invite everybody, and everybody is welcome to come to your home and you prepare, you know, light uh like sandwiches or something like that, and you prepare coffee, and people come to your house for nine days. Friends, family, and yes, there is laughter, and yes, there is there are tears, there are many tears, but it's for nine days that people come. So it's again this not leaving you alone. Yeah, it's like sharing food and sharing stories and coffee or whatever you drink together for nine days, and I think that gives also that sense of I'm not alone, my community is here for me, and we are all grieving, and we are all sharing this collective loss, and it's also you're also remapping this, you know, now like I connect to what I'm reading. It's also giving us time to remap our new world without this person in it, but and helping us bond with with who is with who is still with us in this world, which is something that we need to then uh come out again and yeah, keep living life. Yeah.

Jennie 41:38

So the connections of the community sharing stories and being with each other in that moment, and I'm just really struck with the beauty of h holding the person whose past presence and their impact in that communal space. Yeah. And as you think back to these experiences, how have those experiences shaped who you are in your world today?

Momo 42:28

Um I think going back to what we said, I I think to be able to live every day and to, you know, get up and you know, take a shower and go to do our job or go to the groceries or whatever we kind of have to be more practical and and forget a little bit about this vulnerability and how vulnerable we are as humans walking into this world. And but what it has allowed me is to have this um easier um easier shift into this vulnerability in uh or an opening towards uh life is not given for granted. I can still function in the world, I can still, you know, do my work and do all the things that I have to accomplish in a day. But without forgetting that well vulnerable, we are vulnerable and we and nothing is for granted. So it's it's having it's almost like walking a little bit more comfortable in these two worlds. without shutting one or shutting another. So yeah. I think this is something that I I guess I guess an opening. It's like when I'm saying this is like I feel it's like a it's like an opening in my chest or it's an opening in my heart that is just is aware of that although it's something that luckily you know I don't have to I don't have to leave every day but it's uh I mean it's always a possibility. Yeah so it's this this opening to vulnerability.

Jennie 44:44

And what does that opening to vulnerability make possible for you?

Momo 45:01

I think have more compassion towards myself, towards others and also it it gives you it gives you a perspective in life or a a different perspective that yes and yes I do take my work seriously and you know but but it's like okay but what is the worst that that can happen? You know so it it puts a lot of things into perspective. It's like yeah yeah I want this camera but even if I don't get it like is that the worst or you know it's like oh yeah I love this mug but if it breaks is that the worst that so it's this less attachment to material things is I guess um taking life a little bit less serious or lighthearted or yeah it puts things into perspective and also um definitely my cancer also put a lot of things into perspective so I think it's um yeah it's like what is really important in life and and who do I want to be rather than yeah I have a huge to-do list but who do I want to be and yeah so some days I forget more but some days I can still connect to that. Yeah what's important what truly matters yeah Momo just appreciating the depth and the vulnerability that you shared through your story and um really feeling your story in my heart thank you so much I'm just really grateful for you sharing that with me and with us thank you for this space really because I think it's it's life why not if we're able to if it's in in our capacities why not share this and also why not have more spaces where we can share this I really felt like you really held a beautiful space for me to be able to share it and it's also a privilege to be able to share that with somebody.

Jennie 47:42

Thank you, Momo. So you usually just ask where can people find you if they want to reach out or get in touch.

Momo 47:57

I have a podcast as well the name is Unframed is on Spotify. Sometimes we record in Spanish and sometimes in English um we record on both because we want to reach people on both and because one of my whys why I'm doing this is because I'm always thinking of my mom and what resources she had and she spoke Spanish she didn't speak English. So I'm always thinking of her and saying like hey um I hope my mom had that resource so that's why it's very important for me to do part in Spanish. Other than that I have a website my website my coaching practice my website is called humanconnection.ca I'm on LinkedIn I'm on Instagram but I'm not very active on Instagram I'm dabbling on Instagram so yeah but I guess my website or the podcast is easier to reach out.

Jennie 49:02

Thank you so much. And I will include links in the show notes to Momo's website links to her podcast and I'll also link the two books that you talked about in our conversation in case people are interested in exploring that. Thank you for being here today with us in this space. If something here resonated I'd love to hear from you you can find a link to reach me in the show notes and I'll see you on the next stretch of the journey.