Jennie 0:04

Welcome to Traveling Companions Stories of Becoming. This is a podcast about the in-between, those threshold moments when we can no longer go back to who we were, and who we're becoming isn't yet clear. If you've ever stood in that space or find yourself there now, you're not alone. I'm your host, Jennie Snyder. Today I am joined by Corinne Hart. Corinne is an executive and personal coach. She is someone that I've known for a few years and have watched as she's taken on new challenges. And so it is a pleasure and a delight to welcome Corinne to this space. Corinne, I'm really excited about our conversation today. And I'm going to let you introduce yourself in whatever way feels right.

Corinne 0:59

Thanks, Jennie. It's so great to be here today with you. Thank you so much for inviting me to have this conversation. And I'm really happy to contribute and share my story. So I am someone who's had a career focused on public service. I have a focus on advancing gender equality and women's leadership and women's empowerment around the world through international development. I was at the US Agency for International Development for about nine years before it was shut down in 2025. And before that, I was at the United Nations Foundation and some other public service jobs. So I've really been focused my whole career on how to support the rights of women and girls and advancing gender equality in countries all over the world. I have now transitioned into a full-time entrepreneur. I'm running my own coaching firm and doing leadership coaching and workshop facilitation specifically for women leaders.

Jennie 2:09

Corinne, we start each of these conversations with a framing question. So what was a moment in your life when you could no longer go back to who you were and who you were becoming wasn't yet clear?

Corinne 2:31

Well, the answer to that question was very clear for me because as I mentioned, I was at USAID when last year there were cuts to the federal government, and USAID was the first agency to be impacted, and it was eventually shut down entirely. And so this moment of not being able to go back to who I was was something that was not my choice and was something that I was forced to reckon with and figure out what was next for me. So I couldn't go back. I knew I wanted to be a leadership coach supporting women women leaders who were purpose-driven. I knew I wanted that. But what held me back was actually fear about the unknown and the uncertainty of it all. And so I had clarity. I just didn't trust it.

Jennie 4:09

There's a number of things in there. What you just shared is the door was closed, you couldn't go back, and deep down you had clarity that you didn't quite trust. And I'm curious, where are you now?

Corinne 4:30

Well, I'm definitely in a different place than I was a year ago when those doors were shut. What I'm doing now is I have been running my business for about a year now. I have had some big wins and some big failures as I've been doing it. It's a roller coaster. Um, but I have coached over a hundred different people who are navigating this transition, primarily people in the public service sector, but really many people who are facing some kind of major career disruption or in the messy middle of a transition. I've run workshops, I've run retreats, I have group coaching, one-on-one coaching. Um, I've been writing and on different media outlets. So I've been having some great success and some great fun doing it all. Um, but I've also been learning how hard it is to keep going when the next step doesn't always seem super clear. The path to get to where I want to go is not always super clear. And so, really grounding myself in what allowed me to take the first steps a year ago in the first place is something like it's a strategy I go back to that I keep leaning on to allow myself to just keep walking in the right direction, just taking one step at a time. And I also just want to mention that another big change in my life is that I had lived in the DC area for nearly 20 years, and I'm originally from California, and I had this deep inner knowing that I wanted to live near the beach again and be in a coastal community. And the idea of leaving DC was really scary, especially when your whole career and your whole professional identity is so tied to the work environment there. And another big leap that I took was to relocate. And last year, my family and I we relocated out to the Eastern Shore in Maryland. And so the work that I've been doing to take steps toward what I really want is not just professionally, it's also about my entire life.

Jennie 7:03

Wow. Yeah. So your professional life, your personal life, and that having no clarity, but yet taking a next step. What made that single step possible for you?

Corinne 7:25

Well, I what made it possible was giving myself the opportunity to really get clear on what I wanted. Because it's easy to just take steps and just take action. But if you don't give yourself a minute to really think about what you want, and I think about this with my whole life, not just career, not just professional identity. What kind of lifestyle do I want to live? What kind of person do I want to be? What kind of parent and partner and friend do I want to be able to show up as? And what kind of impact do I want to have in my work? What kind of purpose do I want to be connected to? And I took time to really think about that. I didn't worry about how to get from A to Z. And instead, I just keep asking myself, what's the next best step that will help me walk in that direction?

Jennie 8:25

You mentioned trusting yourself a moment ago. And how do you know that the step you're taking is the next one?

Corinne 8:42

I think part of it is making sure that the conversation going on in your head, that the way you're thinking about your situation, is allowing the full story to come in. So I noticed at the beginning when I wanted to take steps toward launching the business, and I knew that, but I was trying to talk myself out of it because I knew it would be really hard and scary.

Jennie 9:09

Yeah.

Corinne 9:09

And so I started to turn up the volume on the narrative in my head around that decision. And I was hearing things like people will judge you. What will people think? This is a this is a ridiculous move. Um, what if you fail? People will know. Uh, you know, what will it mean for you if you fail at this? And if you try something different right now, will the door shut on you permanently to ever go back to the work that I was doing around gender equality and international development? And so it was all about fear and worry. And I had to be able to turn up the volume on those thoughts to even hear them. And then ask myself, are those the reasons I don't want to take this step? Is the worry and the fear something that I'm comfortable with saying I'm not going to do that because of those reasons? And so I asked myself, well, what else is true? What else is possible? It's also true that potentially I'll succeed. Um, it's possible that I could try this and I might um not want to do it forever and go back into my old career. And so when I started to be able to lay out the neutral facts of the full story, it allowed me to tap into that inner knowing, into that intuition and trust it much, much more because I could hear all of the different pieces, not just the loudest inner critic in my head.

Jennie 10:52

So tapping into other voices, other perspectives inside you, but seeing them. And how would you describe the contrast between when you were in that story of oh my god, I could fail the worry, the fear with where you are now? How would you describe that?

Corinne 11:21

Hmm. This is a great question because oftentimes I'll have clients come to me who think that I have it all figured out because I've been able to push through the fear and take steps that are visible to others, that are vulnerable, that put myself out there so that if I do fail, others will see, you know, that a program isn't working or that I'm taking a step that's different than what I put out there publicly that I'm gonna do. And so what I always remind clients of mine or anyone that I'm in conversation with is the limiting beliefs that I had a year ago when I was doing this work to get started, I would say I've made significant progress on reframing them. And the things that really scared me that felt really intimidating a year ago feel much less intimidating now. But new limiting beliefs have come in. New inner critic voices are there and they're just different, they have a different message. Um, and so really it's not about trying to stop ever feeling, thinking things that create fear and doubt and anxiety. It's about having the tools to go through the process. So I think the big difference between then and now is that I've gotten so much better at doing that. And therefore, I can move through the big emotional, scary moments in a different, more powered way.

Jennie 12:56

And I really appreciate what you just said. It's like we never are free, perhaps, of those worries or doubts or whatever, but maybe they take new form. And it sounds like you going through them, you mentioned having a new way of dealing with them or walking through them in a more empowered way.

Corinne 13:23

Yeah, definitely. Let's use the topic of fear of rejection as an example. So when I was first getting started, I remember thinking if someone rejects me, if someone says no or doesn't respond to my ask, doesn't sign up for my workshop, I am going to have to crawl into a hole and just never return. That's gonna be the end. I I won't recover from that. It's gonna feel too painful, too scary, and it's gonna be this huge, you know, someone's commentary on me as a person. I really felt scared about it. I was so scared of how it would make me feel to be rejected that I was avoiding doing the asking and avoiding putting myself out there. And so now what I'm able to do is to remind myself of how powerful it has been for me to put myself out there, to make the ask, to be visible and vulnerable, and then to just reframe the way I think about rejection. It still hurts. It's not an easy thing to experience, but I've been thinking about it like the more rejections I get, it means I'm asking. It means I'm putting myself out there. If I'm not getting any no's, it means I'm not asking anyone. And if I'm not asking anyone, if I'm not sharing my story, if I'm not putting my programs out there, then I'm not gonna have the impact that I want because ultimately, right now, I am driven by serving the women in my community, in my world who are trying to rebuild after such a devastating career disruption. And ultimately, I want all women to live the life that they want. I want them to go after their most ambitious dreams professionally and personally. And I can't support women in that journey if I'm just too afraid to say that I'm doing this kind of work.

Jennie 15:31

Yeah. Wow. And as you have been putting yourself out there and taking those risks, what has surprised you the most?

Corinne 16:00

But it has really surprised me how my network and my community that I've built over my 20-year career has shown up for me and supported me and been my cheerleader and really have pushed me and held me up to go after what I want. And I know that for me at the beginning, the way that my community rallied around me and each other, the community really supported each other. But on a personal level, I had women and men reaching out to me across decades of my work experience, not just from USAID, really, really encouraging me. And so that was surprising. I I felt so nervous about doing it alone and feeling like I might be judged. And actually, the opposite happened. People were like, this is incredible, you should do it. We're so proud of you. Um, we want to see the impact that you can have, and we're here to support you. And that was a huge difference to have that community and that support.

Jennie 17:11

So, in putting yourself out there and receiving that support from your community, what difference did that make for you?

Corinne 17:24

It really made a huge difference. And I always encourage people to be careful about relying too much on external validation because of course you may not always get it. And it doesn't mean what you want to pursue and the big vision you have is not the right thing. Um, so there's a balance there. But in this case, it made a huge difference to me to be able, as I was laying out the evidence of the other side of the story around maybe I won't fail, maybe this is the right thing. It was incredibly helpful to have feedback from colleagues and friends and mentors and people who had worked for me and worked with me, telling me that this felt like I was stepping into my super strengths, that this was a clear and obvious next step that I should be taking.

Jennie 18:24

Yeah. And so you mentioned that this journey has not been a straight line, it hasn't been smooth. You've had moments where things haven't turned out. Uh and what have been the hardest parts about this transition?

Corinne 18:50

There's been several things that have been difficult. Uh, one, just from a practical standpoint, a solopreneur, doing everything myself, learning everything that needs to happen to run a business has been a huge challenge. And it's something I've never done before, and I also never really envisioned doing. I've always had a full-time salaried position and um wasn't necessarily expecting to challenge myself with building a business and running it in this way. I think also really being able to move forward while also allowing yourself to process the loss of the identity. And of course, there's so many other um ripple effects of uh USAID being closed down, um, impacts on, I mean, it's it was like it's life and death for some people. And so really being able to continue to have hope and move forward toward a vision while also being in the real context of the world and the implications of shutting down the agency, that has been hard to be able to navigate. And so, again, going back to what is just the when I feel that weight and that hopelessness, just asking myself, you know, what is one thing that I can do right now that keeps me moving forward?

Jennie 20:31

In those moments where you have felt that weight, what are those things that have kept you moving forward?

Corinne 20:39

Well, two things come to mind. One is when I'm working with clients, I will hear feedback that really keeps me going. You know, I have had clients tell me at the end of my group coaching that they now believe for the first time that they are enough. Um, I've had women tell me that for the first time they've been unable to untangle who they are and the value they bring from what they do and their job title. So in those moments, it's really so much easier for me to ground myself in why am I going to keep going? What is the reason I need to keep going? Because I'm having the impact I want to have. And it doesn't mean that every person is having this enormous transformational impact, but even just helping someone get a little bit clearer on what they want and helping them build even a little bit more confidence to go after what they want makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. That this It is important that I am in the place that I should be and where I need to be. So lucky for me, my whole days are spent talking to women who are going through coaching and different programs. So I have these little moments of boosting me to keep going all the time. It's built, it's woven into what I'm doing.

Jennie 22:24

Yeah. That you are, through your own experience, walking this transition yourself and what you're able to offer your clients that gives you a sense of purpose in having that impact.

Corinne 22:40

Yeah, absolutely.

Jennie 22:44

As you've gone through this journey, what have you learned about yourself?

Corinne 22:54

I've learned that I'm a lot more courageous than I thought I was. Um I've learned that I can do things that I never thought I'd be able to do. And I have just learned that I can do things that felt out of reach. They felt impossible. And it's so wonderful that I've been able to learn that about myself because I can be an example to other women who are navigating this kind of really messy, the messy middle of these big transitions. When they're writing their visions down, which is like the first thing we do in the group coaching, we we have to really write down the vision with their vision. And so many times women say, I don't know what I want. I don't want to write it down because it feels so impossible. It almost feels silly, you know, to write something down that feels so impossible. And I'm able to pull out my vision from what I wrote a year ago that at the time felt almost embarrassing to share with other people because it felt so ridiculously out of reach and actually point to some of it coming true. And that has come from taking steps that felt scary and just doing it anyways. I used to have a sticky note last year on my computer that said, that's scary and I'm doing it anyways. And I just kept referring to it and kept doing it anyways.

Jennie 24:41

And what have you learned as you have uh felt the fear and done it anyway?

Corinne 24:49

Well, it's not usually as scary as you think it's gonna be. Um, you know, I our minds uh want to catastrophize, go to the worst case scenario, guess what other people are gonna think about you, even though there's no way to actually know what other people think about you. And even when something that I've done has flopped, which has happened, even then, the worst case scenario was just learning. Okay, that didn't work. Usually I learn a ton from why it didn't work, and I can reflect and help bring that into the next thing. And um, I just bumpered. So ultimately, it really, you know, it starts to erode the power of that fear because you have more and more evidence that you're building that what you're scared of, it is possible, it is doable. And if it goes wrong, it goes wrong, and you'll still be able to move forward. And that goes for that goes, that's true for me, what I've been doing, you know, professionally, trying to build a business, but also personally and taking big steps to relocate and build a new community and just start to build a new life out in a new area. It's happening to me all around. It's just doing it and then learning and then adjusting the next step to continue going.

Jennie 26:12

And you mentioned looking back at the vision that you wrote for yourself a year ago, and maybe some embarrassment around the parts of it, and that a few things have come true. What were some of the elements in your vision that maybe felt impossible or unattainable?

Corinne 26:34

I mean, just having a coaching business felt unattainable. There are a lot of statistics about coaching businesses that fail, um, and that it's not something that many people are able to turn into a long-lasting sustainable business. So the fact that it's a year later and I'm actually continuing to do better and scale and have the impact that I want to have, I'm still completely in alignment with my core values and what I want to do. That felt impossible at the time. Um, and to do it with flexibility and freedom. Freedom being one of my core values felt really impossible. How could you start a business and be an entrepreneur, which is synonymous with hustling and working night and day, and also have flexibility and freedom to truly enjoy my new community and be a super present parent and partner and friend? Those two things felt at conflict with each other. And I'm not saying I've figured that out completely. Of course, it's something I'm still navigating all the time, but having it be a part of my goal for every single day is still there. And I have more of it than I've ever had in my whole life. And so that felt almost embarrassing to tell people that I wanted that. And yet now looking back, I can say, yeah, I am chipping away at that. Like I am actually making progress toward that.

Jennie 28:17

And how do you see that progress in balancing those two parts?

Corinne 28:25

Well, one key part about making progress on that has been acceptance that I am okay with not having my professional achievements and my job title and my organization provide my value. I am okay with just being me and being ambitious about my whole life. So um, and that has taken work to untangle because that is not the way that um I have been approaching my career or the first uh, you know, the beginning of it. Um, and also just understanding that I've changed. I I used to be very, very motivated by professional achievements and external factors of success. And it's very hard to step back and say, I'm going to define success on my own terms. And while I no longer have a fancy title, then I can show up into a room and people say, Oh, you know, that woman, she's important. She's got an important title and works at an important place. And I have to do my own, I have to explain what I do in a totally different way. But I know I have success because I am signing off at the time I want to sign off. I'm spending time in the middle of the day how I want to spend it. And I redefine success on my own terms. Um, and then being okay is having acceptance that not everyone will see it as the same kind of success as you had before.

Jennie 30:07

And as you've embraced that new definition of success, how do you feel?

Corinne 30:15

I feel great. I feel great. I mean, truly, I feel very aligned with my most authentic self. I feel like I know what I want in a way that is clearer than ever before. And I think part of that comes with, and I'm sure you're hearing this as you have these conversations, that when you are going through these stories of these phases of becoming where you are shifting from one identity to another, that when you go through that change, you come through it knowing yourself better and more deeply than you've ever known yourself in the past. And so I feel so aligned with who I want to be right now. And it doesn't mean that there aren't things that are stressful or that are going wrong or not exactly as I want them to be going. But again, it's that knowing that I'm taking the right steps and that big picture vision is serving as my North Star. It's telling me which way to point and to walk forward. Um, and that makes me feel good. That's creating the sense of ease and alignment.

Jennie 31:38

And thinking about other times in your career, in your life, where maybe that alignment wasn't as strong as maybe you're naming it right now. What difference does this sense of alignment make for you?

Corinne 31:58

It makes a huge difference in terms of feeling peace and calm and confidence. Because the confidence doesn't come from the certainty of knowing exactly how something will work out. I have no idea what's gonna happen with what I'm doing and if this is gonna be the path I will stay on. Um, the confidence is coming from trusting that I've done the work to get the clarity and to build the courage to go after what I want. And I can think of a time a few years ago when I, you know, on paper, I had exactly what I had always been aiming to get. I had a big job, a big title, lots of resources, managing a team, it checked all these boxes. And yet I felt so much second guessing and doubt. And I did not trust that I knew what to do next. And I felt so nervous about thinking about transitioning into a new, into a coaching career, which is what I wanted to do. And so when I think back to then a few years ago, when I knew what I wanted, but I wasn't allowing myself to even dream that it was possible. My mindset was one rife with doubting, second guessing, rumination, spiraling, never able to really just even take a break to get clear and to have those insights that would lead me to the ability to take those next steps.

Jennie 33:42

Wow.

Corinne 33:43

So the differences has been huge. And I would say back then, I actually had much more stability and security in my life than I have right now. My situation right now is actually much more tenuous.

Jennie 34:03

And yeah, it's tenuous. And I'm hearing if you're describing this alignment, like you don't have the certainty, but what what does it afford you?

Corinne 34:19

I I think it comes back to that self-trust. I have the confidence in myself that I am taking the right steps, I'm doing the things that are most aligned with my core values. And so that's how I'm showing up differently in this moment in my life, in this phase of my life. I really took the time to think about what does it mean for me to be a present mom? You know, what what for me, defining it on my own terms, what does that mean? And then how do I build that into my life? One piece at a time. Same questions and exploration around what does it mean for me to be a purpose-driven professional? What does it mean for me to show up for myself, for my health and wellness? And, you know, of course, I've got room to grow in every single area, but I have that confidence that I know where I'm going with each area.

Jennie 35:27

So if you were to look back at the Corinne that was in that moment when the organization closed and you were suddenly thrust into this transition, what would you say to her based on everything that you've gained through this past year?

Corinne 35:52

I would tell her you're gonna be okay. You're gonna get through this. Um I think when everything was happening last year, it was a very disorienting and scary experience. Um it felt it felt very like it felt like the ground had completely shifted underneath me. And I think this was a universal experience for people who had gone through uh these kinds of cuts and layoffs. And so I would just tell her, you're gonna be okay. And you don't believe it now, but you are going to come out through this again, just knowing yourself better than you ever have, and feeling more like yourself than you ever have in the past, and that's a result of going through this type of huge transition and stepping into a new identity.

Jennie 37:00

Yeah. How does it feel to say that out loud?

Corinne 37:05

It feels good. It feels good. It, you know, I, as I was saying, it made me think I want to make sure that I'm not um like making it sound like sugarcoating it or making it sound like it was an easy place to get to because it was very hard and it still is hard. I still have moments of a lot of doubt and a lot of worry about what I'm doing. But like I said, the message that I want to make sure I'm sharing and that I am always talking to clients about is like we were saying at the very beginning, it's not about never having those thoughts ever again that create worry and fear and anxiety. It's really just continuing to build that muscle that allows you to work through them and find a different way to think about your situation, shift your mindset, um, and to just do it more naturally, more kind of efficiently so that I can move through the challenging parts. And that's what's creating the sense of calm and ease. It's not that life is just so calm. It's the it's the knowing that I can find a different way to think about my challenges that make me feel like I have more agency and more empowerment and control. And then that allows me to find the step forward, even if it's like the smallest, tiniest baby step I've ever taken. At least it's something moving forward versus feeling super stuck.

Jennie 38:51

If you were to sum up where you are in this moment, your sense of yourself, with your inner trust and inner knowing, where are you today?

Corinne 39:04

I think today I am feeling confident that I'm on the right path. I'm feeling aligned with my core values. I'm feeling um really content. I think, you know, I'm not aiming to feel happy and joyful every minute of the day, but what I want to do is at the end of the day, I want to look back on the day and feel content and fulfilled. And I want to know what are the things that make up my day that lead to those feelings. And the more that I try to focus on that, the more I learn about what needs to be part of my day to have that feeling. And it's things like not um overscheduling myself or feeling like I'm racing around trying to do multiple things all at one time. It's about making time to unplug from work, it's about getting out in nature, making sure I get outside. It's about finding time to read and sit with my girls and just really enjoy them. And so I'm learning more and more about what needs to be part of my day to feel super content and fulfilled at the end of the day. And the more I reflect and learn, the more I can build those pieces in. And when I don't have days that have those things, I notice, I pay attention, and I do my best to think about how to shift and adjust to make the next day just a teeny bit better.

Jennie 40:48

I just am struck by the piece you said just a moment ago. It's like life is life.

Corinne 40:57

Yeah. As uh I've heard people on on uh TikTok say, life is lysing. And yeah, um, and you're not gonna change that. Life is gonna always be lysing, and really um, you know, thinking about how you want to go through life is really important. And I think as ambitious women who've been very career-driven, we've often been trained to think about how to get through those pieces of life, but from a career perspective, how to achieve certain milestones, how to meet all these big markers of success. And when your career is taken away from you in a way that is not in your control, it really forces you to think about how are you going to show up now, now that everything you've been working for professionally is different. And how are you going to actually focus, get intentional, um, and really tap into who you are, because in some ways it's all you have at that point, yeah, is the value that you bring.

Jennie 42:11

It's like we tend to think about our value in a very narrow way. It's our job, it's our title, it's all of those things. And it's actually not this narrow, but it's actually much broader and encompassing of more, so much more of who we are and what makes a fulfilling life.

Corinne 42:35

Yeah. I mean, as a human being, you inherently bring value. And so, you know, if you're going through the kind of forced transition that I'm going through, and many others in my community, you have to reckon with that because that is what's left, is just who you are at a human level and the value that you bring. And one thing that I've had a lot of clients talk to me about is that they are so, there's so much sadness around losing their ability to have purpose and impact through their career. Because if you go into public service, that is one of the key drivers that you want to have impact. And so, what I've been talking to them about is what I was able to do, which was distill down what is the purpose I want to have. Of course, it was fantastic when I was able to do it in a formal setting with resources and the heft of an institution behind me. But at its core, at the essence, the thing I've always cared about, and I can think about Corinne in elementary school thinking about this. I care about women and girls living their best lives, their most free, agency filled lives. And so Right now, this is what I can do to contribute to that. And it doesn't mean I won't go back to doing just doing it how I used to do it. But really allowing people who are purpose-driven to tap into that purpose at the essence so that there is a way you can bring what matters most to you into your life, whether it's through your formal career or not, is a really important way to have that contentment and alignment that we were talking about earlier as you go through every single day.

Jennie 44:33

Thank you, Corinne. I really appreciate you sharing that with us today. Thank you so much, Jenny. We usually ask where can folks find you? I'll include contact information, anything in the show notes, but how can folks get in touch with you?

Corinne 44:52

The best way to reach me is on LinkedIn.

Jennie 44:55

If anything that you've heard in this conversation today resonates, feel free to reach out to Corinne. Thank you for being with us here in this space. And if today's conversation moved something in you, I'd love to hear from you. You can find a link to reach me in the show notes. And I'll see you on the next stretch of the journey.